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Discussion Starter #1
Hey guys, been a while since I've been on here. I have a couple of lt80s that I got in trade a few years back that I would like to build up for my buddy's son. He has a Chinese throw away quad that has been a basket case since day one. So I figure I'll just hook him up with something that has reliability and reeds... I've been researching like crazy and everything I come up with usually leads up to discontinued parts or websites that are no longer there. I've been reading several forums about a guy that goes by LT80 on a lot of them. Anyone know if he's on here? I think his name is Jack Moore??? But anyone else with some knowledge on these little guys, please inform me. First off, these things are WAY too stiff sprung. I'm thinking I can extend the arms and maybe move the shock mounts a little further in to put more pressure on the shock for a smoother ride. I found some better shocks, but $600 is a little steep for a mini. I've also been reading about clutch mods that help a lot to, but still not sure what is evolved there. I would also like to keep the stock pipe if possible. Anyway, thanks for any input.
 

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I'm here...LOL
Suspension is a tough one. I hear there are some Polaris shocks that work. If you do extend the arms I'm sure you could find even better shocks. The stock shocks are junk. No travel.
Prolly best to call to talk about what your wanting to learn about motor wise.
814-922-7470
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Oh cool, was hoping you were here lol. Yeah, my buddy is supposed to come by tomorrow or Thursday and see if he thinks it'll be big enough, his son's really tall for a 7 year old. But I'm sure hoping it is. Especially after seeing all the performance mods that can be done to it after he gets more comfortable with it. I'm hoping we can get him into racing with it:Headbang:. It will need a complete motor/carb rebuild I'm sure. What piston do you recommend? I usually turn to wiseco but I don't know if there's a better option for these minis. Defiantly going to bore the jug just enough to make sure it's perfectly round, so it will for sure be an oversize. Also, how much would you shave the head? Pretty much going to just do very minor upgrades until he gets some ride time in. Already scares the hell out of me the way he rides that nutless Chinese turd lol.
 

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I use Suzuki pistons/parts.
Wiseco's are fine for most machines, not for a LT80 IMO.
Shave the head .030 and take the rear clutch shoes down to 180 grams each. That'll get ya going smooth. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thank you sir. My buddy decided that it will be a good quad for him, so the build is on. May call you in the near future for advice on more motor upgrades. Probably going to start with the basic motor rebuild and do suspension modifications for now. I figure he can have all the power in the world, but it don't matter if the handling makes it uncontrollable. But I think stretching/widening it with the shock mounts further in will make it much better. Been looking into the lt160 front shocks for it as well. Anyway, thanks again for your input. Btw, one more thing. How reliable is the oil injection systems on these? I'd like to get rid of it, but at the same time I want to keep it so there is no worries of his son putting straight gas in it.
 

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I disconnect the oil pump. They work fine, till they don't then it's bore time.
Educate the son. It'll be OK. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Will do then. Thanks again for your help.
 

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I use Suzuki pistons/parts.
Wiseco's are fine for most machines, not for a LT80 IMO.
Shave the head .030 and take the rear clutch shoes down to 180 grams each. That'll get ya going smooth. :)
Question for LT80 newbie: Why not a Wiesco piston or any other for that matter? Here at E2S we mainly take advice on facts. Forged cycle pistons are 4-5 times stronger than OEM cast pistons, we have tested them.
Why shave .030”? why not .020” or .050"? What kind of squish percentage would you recommend? How much cranking compression are we looking for, compression ratio?

With my bad back I haven’t ridden a cycle for many years. I read E2S to learn from people who have experience & know.

These aren’t criticisms but we readers expect to learn from others who know their stuff.
For you people who are new, spend a few bux & purchase a copy of Performance Tuning, Two Cycle Engines. This book is a good read & extremely informative.

John Tice
503-593-2908 Alternate 541-508-3944
www.smallenginemachineworks.com & www.nwsleeve.com
Turning Custom Cylinder Sleeves Since 1971
 

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Mr. Tice, 20 years of LT80's has showed me that the Wiseco pistons are not best for them. It's a air cooled thing I think.
On a stock application and with a meticulous break-in, they can work. Their rings are very thin.
For modded motors they seem to stick on the front transfer area. When we raced and a 52mm was needed (wiseco only) I drilled 3 holes below the ring gaps, used coarse sandpaper and sanded the same areas. If I didn't relieve it enough, it'd stick and I'd take it apart and sand it some more and they usually ran a while. Sounds stupid huh!
As for other pistons, I used Pro-x for a while but decided to go back to Suzuki parts for a cpl bucks extra. Never a problem with stock.
Wiseco's are stronger like you mentioned. I rev LT80's 12k+ and never had a skirt or any other issue so strength is a mute issue to me.
I have me a 73mm wiseco in my 250R. :)
 

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OOPs..."Why shave .030”? why not .020” or .050"? What kind of squish percentage would you recommend? How much cranking compression are we looking for, compression ratio?"
LT80's are low comp (125 new). Bumping up the compression makes them more efficient.
.030 is all you can go safely. .040 and the piston will hit the head.
140/150 is what it should measure after milling.
 

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What does an (air cooled thing) mean? Thin rings are giving less drag on the cylinder walls. (More performance) More Sticking in the front transfer area shows maybe the ports aren’t champhered properly. Maybe the bore isn’t honed round & straight?

This is the hone which makes the cylinder round & straight


147psi = 10-1 corrected compression ratio. (14.7psi Sea Level atmospheric pressure); for readers worried about the piston hitting the head, fork out some bux & purchase a copy of “Performance Tuning” & learn about squish band clearances & deck heights. This book is a good start.


John Tice
503-593-2908 Alternate 541-508-3944
www.smallenginemachineworks.com & www.nwsleeve.com
Turning Custom Cylinder Sleeves Since 1971
 

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I think the piston heats up unevenly when the motor is not allowed to warm up good. I think that's where the problems start.
I have that book. As for squish and such, I just don't care to go into all that.
As for straight and round, I guess I'll just have to pressume that Suzuki puts them out OK.
Does that 20k hone come with the 50 cents worth of bungee cords?? LMAO
 

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The bungee cords are used to support the cylinders when we flip the bores from end to end. Anybody who has used a horizontal con rod hone for sizing cycle cylinders will appreciate the technique. Honing only from one end makes accurate sizing extremely difficult.

Most people who spend any time on a Sunnen machine have nearly lost a finger or two from unsupported cylinders as they grab & start spinning. After over 40 years of daily use I still have all of my fingers.

When you start to send out a cylinder or two for a bore; you now know how they can be accurately sized straight & round.

Stick with E2S & you’ll learn a few more tricks of the trade.


John Tice
503-593-2908 Alternate 541-508-3944
www.smallenginemachineworks.com & www.nwsleeve.com
Turning Custom Cylinder Sleeves Since 1971
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Wow. Lol. Did'nt mean to start a war. I just figured lt80 knew his stuff since he's been big into these little motors for a long time, so I was taking his word without explanation needed. Kinda like I'm not going to question Denny about why he ports the way he does. I do like knowing why to use those pistons tho. Anyway, I greatly appreciate the info. One more thing, I heard that you can cut a section out of the muffler and weld the end back on for an extra little boost. Basically just shortening the muffler a bit. Seems like most of the pipes available now are not really worth the money.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Btw, anyone know where or if I can still buy E2S shirts, stickers, etc? I know, kinda off topic.
 

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LOL, no war my friend.
Mr. Tice gets a lil uncomfortable when someone mentions a Wiseco in a less than favorable way. Something about owning shares in Wiseco or something...(that's a joke Mr. Tice). :)

FYI: alot of good stock pipes have been hacked and ruined.
I've been trying to get my own pipes made but it seems as soon as I get a cpl bucks up, life kicks me in the wallet. I have 2 prototypes here.
 

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At times in some of my replies in E2S; I can get a little carried away & sound somewhat condescending. Since I‘m a machinist & not a polished English student, my penmanship may not be quite up to speed.:Dope:

No Wars are intended
; through my experience around the shop I attempt to pass along some skills which are lacking in our industry. For those of you who follow the thread “How it’s Done” there is a wealth of information. Whether you agree or not, these skills & techniques work well for me. The entries in “How it’s Done” have been throttled back some in the last few months. The reasons being that most of our work has already been covered somewhere in the column.


:Cheers:
 

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Mr. Tice, I do have the utmost respect for you. I know your work is unsurpassed. And I really didn't take your any offence to your reply's.
I feel that we are the same. We come in to help others from our experiences.
I was also joking about the bungee's..
On my part, I don't explain technical things and thoughts well.
 
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