[volfan537240]

Very nice work jt! Nice to see the behind the scenes stuff.

 

[John Tice]

Time for you to think about purchasing a cylinder boring machine.
JT

 

[StrokeitTwice443]

i have a set of banshee cylinders that may end up in your shop. sleeves are pretty beat up from a crank failure, but i hate to throw them away.

 

[John Tice]

Rebuilt Banshee Cylinders

Hi ST443: Send me a personal email or give me a call. As you know, the pistons, parts etc. could run up to 2-3 hundred $s. Let me know what kind of buget we would have to work with. You might think about sending them to me as a donation for a storey. I can rebuild the cylinders and save the final bore till someone has a use for them. When I sell or exchange them, I'd be happy to split the $$ with you. Seems like a good idea to me?
Only you fella's would know about the marketability of rebuilt Banshee cylinders. I could do the project in a month or so. It should make a good read, especially if you give some good suggestions. If we made some worthy improvements, I'd pass them along to LA & NW Sleeve co's
JT 503-593-2908 PT
[email protected]

 

[John Tice]

Merc 175HP V-6

Mercury V-6 175HP
The project is a little off base for some of you folks who ride ATV’s. There are a lot of people who have Outboard motors who have the same kind of high priced problems. I'm a little shy on pictures this week because I had my hands full with other things to do. We've been worried about the fact that many of the projects that are written about have the ops over and over and may get boring to read about. Please chime in with your ideas.
This one is the most difficult liner installation I’ve had to do. Due to the size of the Merc block I’m going to install and remove the new liner cold, with a light press fit. I think about a .002” press will do just fine. It needs to be as tight as possible without cracking the aluminum while things are cold. Water cooled engines aren’t as sensitive as air cooled as far as fit goes. The first challenge is to prepare the block for mounting in the boring bar stand.

The center of the block has a raised area around the exhaust port openings. The head gasket surface area is carefully cleaned with a new sharp file for burrs and high spots.

After the top of the block is cleaned up, I cut a couple of aluminum bars for parallels, to act as spacers while mounting the block in the boring stand. We used to use precision surface ground pieces of steel but found that lengths of aluminum from an extruded bar are close enough.

It took 3 of us to lift the block into place on the bar stand. The block was carefully clamped from above to hold it tightly in position.

My cylinder boring machine is a light weight model & we needed to take small cuts so the cutter wouldn’t bind up.

Around .250” was removed before the old sleeve came loose from the aluminum block.

The new liner will have flanged steps machined in it to make a large enough head gasket seal. If your wondering "How's he Gonna do that?" I don't have a clue. We'll see as we go.

Next week we’ll etch the ports with acid using a Turkey baister.
Stay Tuned, the next project is back to the Vintage Husky Big bore.
“Old Dog”
JT www.smallenginemachineworks.com
:thumbsup:

 

[Paulie B]

I'm impressed with the fact that they used an aluminum block. This might be the norm, IDK anything about outboards. I do know that they sing a beautiful song at the higher rpms.
There was an episode of mythbusters where they used a 2 stoke outboard to power a project they were doing and they kept it out of the water.
Dang the sound of that thing working was music to my ears!
If it's not too much trouble can you post the porting scheme inside the jugs it looks interesting.
Thanks again for your work

 

[Paulie B]

Are they nicasiled?

 

[John Tice]

I'll have photos of the liner next week. As far as I know there aren't any plated cylinders in outboard motors. Maybe the newer ones but I don't think so. A 2-stroke is a 2-stroke and the port timing for each RPM level is about the same. i've been measuring them for years.
JT

 

[John Tice]

What equipment do I need to get started?

John:

I am interested in finding out what machines, such as Lathes, milling equipment one would need to start a small engine ( 4-stroke, 2-cycle, various racing go-kart engines..etc) machining shop to re-work heads, cylinders, cranks…etc ? I know this is a rather “broad” question; however, I am really thinking about “opening up” a shop… Any information or websites you can recommend would be much appreciated.

Hi Jon: Have you had any Machine shop schooling? If not you need to plan attending a local community college or something to acquire some basics. I’m guessing that you’re an E2S member? If you start following my thread “How it’s done”, you’ll get some ideas of what’s involved.www.everything2stroke.com
It takes years to accumulate your tooling, but if you’re young, it’s time to start. I have a student in Romania, Yes, around the world. Cristi is doing exactly what you’re interested in. I’m forwarding this email to him so he can give you some pointers. With the language translator, we can talk to anybody. You mentioned Kart engine work. You probably know that ROTAX has the Kart business tied up. Until there is a Rotax open class it’ll be a problem. There is a small amount of Yamaha KT100 racing interest around my area which may open things up a little.
I guess for starters you need some measuring tools.

You also need a copy of my hand book $20.00. It will run you through the basics. If you really want to do this you need to start earning some money so you’ll have some cash to reinvest.
The equipment I use on a daily basis, Power Hone, Cylinder boring machine, Engine lathe & a Vertical Mill. Aluminum welding equipment is a NEED to have item.
I could write another book onthe getting started in business. Throw me a few more questions and we can go from there. I’ll post this mail in “How it’s Done” and see what other interest we can generate.
JT "Old Dog"
:thumbsup:

 

[Dezsled]

This is a great thread. Thanks for showing how it's done. I always have wanted to become proficient at machining/ metal working. I am always in awe when I was around the machinists at my work.

 

[dirtrider500R]

John:

I am interested in finding out what machines, such as Lathes, milling equipment one would need to start a small engine ( 4-stroke, 2-cycle, various racing go-kart engines..etc) machining shop to re-work heads, cylinders, cranks…etc ? I know this is a rather “broad” question; however, I am really thinking about “opening up” a shop… Any information or websites you can recommend would be much appreciated.

I could write another book onthe getting started in business. Throw me a few more questions and we can go from there. I’ll post this mail in “How it’s Done” and see what other interest we can generate.
JT "Old Dog"

I'd like to get into doing the same thing for a living eventually. Currently applying to a handful of bike shops around my area so that I can get more experience working on things other than bikes. 'Course it would be easier if I was a little older than 16 haha.

 

[John Tice]

Your education is the most important thing to contue with. The community college is a very good place to go when your ready.
You can be most anything that you wish with the proper schooling.
If you can, find a good dealer who will give you some work. Even if you must strart by sweeping the floor. Your good attitude will open many doors for you.
JT

 

[John Tice]

Where do we go from here

Where do we go from here: As most of you folks know, much of the Machine shop work is very repetitive from day to day. I’ve been thinking about what kind of page arraignment that would retain your interest. I’ve decided to continue taking snapshots as I go through my daily work and see what you folks think about this kind of layout. Please send your suggestions.

Boring & Honing, Straight & Round: If the Cylinder boring bar isn't adjusted smooth and close the final bore may not turn out round. Most every operator agrees that when possible, the cylinder should be mounted upside down when tightened in the fixture. When the tool bit hits some of the porting the bar may Jump slightly and cause an interrupted cut. An inaccurate bore from an interrupted cut is almost impossible to straighten out with a cylinder hone.

A tip for Hone stone storage: I always remove and replace the hone stones in the same location, Every Time.

A simple storage rack can be made out of a 2x6 board.

It’s a good practice to check the bar for “Run Out” & “Flex” every few month’s.

If your machine makes a “Familiar Chatter” sound, your bar may be out of adjustment or the Tool Cutting angle may be incorrect.

Any Machine Shop which works on small engine cylinders MUST have a set of Expanding mandrels. In the Old Days, K.O. Lee brand was the only name in town. Fast forward 25 years & high quality import brands are available for more economical prices.

I’m finishing up the 390 Husky cylinder next week. In this illustration we didn’t have a large enough mandrel to mount up this cylinder. Instead, a 3 jaw chuck at the base and a live pipe center at the top enables us to FUDGE a mounting for a light counter bore.

In case your wondering what ever happened to the V-6 Mercury block, I GAVE UP.

The crack in the cylinder ended up too close to the Exhaust & Transfer ports. Since there is so much money involved in this project, we decided not to continue. If it were a simple single cylinder engine, we may have finished it up.

Back to the 390cc Husky Cylinder.

The top & bottom are cut to size. Double checking the new sleeve in the head pocket. You can see how profound the acid etch port markings are. There's no excuse for missing port alignment.

Since all of our port machining is done by hand, A simple J-Head vertical mill works just fine.

On a good day, all of the ports can be cut and polished smooth in around 45 minutes. This kind of work is very time consuming. I’m pretty sure that most of us do this kind of work because we love the process, not because of it’s high profitability

One of the next projects is installing DH Boost porting in a Mac Kart engine. Dale Herbrandson is in his 70's now. The DH Reed valves were the beginning of Reed Valves on Motorcycles. I'd like to keep some of the history alive.

I put the reeds on this 440cc twin back in the Middle 70's. Dale helped me start my business, I'm forever grateful to know him.

Ran out of picture space again.
Next Week
"Old Dog"
JT

 

[volfan537240]

Lots of good info. Thanks jt.

 

[John Tice]

The Mighty DH Reed Valve

A name which is almost lost in the 2-Stroke industry is Mr. Dale Herbrandson. Dale was an engineer for the McCulloch chain saw company back in the early 60’s. Dale is almost solely responsible for the Reed Valve industry in Powersports today. Dale’s Big Double reed valve system for the CZ cycle opened the doors for my small shop. Dale’s family now manufactures small aircraft engines. Www.herbrandsonengines.com

DH Reed for the 400 CZ

DH Reed on a 400 Maico

Sleeves + Yamaha Reeds on a 440 twin. After Dale moved on to the Aircraft industry, We started using Yamaha Reed Cages.

Moving along to How it’s Done. The geometry of the ports on this McCulloch saw engine is laid out on the computer. If any of you are interested in getting into CAD drawings, the program "Sketch Up" is Free from Google

After the Port Drill jig is blanked out on the Lathe, the boost port holes are drilled in the Jig.

The McCulloch block is Decked for height after the head is removed.

This simple little drill jig guides the Slickest Boost porting you can ever do.

This example of Boost Porting is on a CR250Honda.

When it fits, I’ll put DH type boost porting in all of my liner replacements. There will be many "How To" examples in the articles to come.

Next Time
"Old Dog"
JT www.smallenginemachineworks.com
:thumbsup:

 

[John Tice]

If an interesting project idea ever comes up, send me a note, I’m always up to a challenge.
JT

 

[Paulie B]

I love the vintage trick parts pics John :thumbsup:
I wish you were a transmission guru, I'd ship you my 79' YZ400 tranny.
I will not shift under power anymore and no one knows why haha

 

[John Tice]

I'll bet someone reading this will be able to fix your Tranny
JT

 

[John Tice]

What to do next

I’ve been showing you readers Machine Shop processes which are informative and interesting. How it’s done in the Machine Shop is a very repetitive thing over time. There may not be an article each week since there isn’t something different to talk about every week. Whenever any of you have questions or Ideas please chime in.
I’ve been working on reviving some of the DH Reed valve porting techniques. I now understand why Dale used to grumble when we’d ask him for another drill jig. The darn things are extremely difficult to accurately produce. I’ve been working on a jig for the vintage McCulloch Kart engines. After the 3rd. try it should be done next week.

I’m eager to use DH Type boost porting in some of the newer water cooled cylinders. Any way to improve the piston support on the intake side without hindering performance would be a plus. For any of you who are interested, we will do a feature write up on your cylinder for a new sleeve in E2S at a discount.
Over the years many things have changed on the 2-stroke and many things have stayed the same. I found on the net a great book “Two-Stroke Performance Tuning” A. Graham Bell. My used book was probably only thumbed through, it’s just like new.

This book is a good read though there might be many questions still unanswered by the time you finish up. Pipe construction is well covered. You quality pipe builders really have a challenge getting your Pride & Joy design to fit in any frame that comes along.
Later
“Old Dog”
JT
:thumbsup:

 

[HondaATC]

That is one of my favorite books about 2-strokes John. A TON of great information in there and it covers all spectrums. A lot of things in there mentioned that most people do not consider or think of often as well I think.