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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hey guys, bear with me this will be lengthy. So my aunt has a boat with a 1969 Evinrude 85hp V-4 2 stroke and I'm wondering if these scenarios sound like the water pump. The thing sat for a year or two and I helped her a little last year trying to get it to run. We got it running after giving it new gas mixed 50:1 with some Pennzoil 2 stroke outboard she had sitting around but I noticed a few things about it. The first thing is that I changed the lower unit oil and there was straight water coming out after some oil, I didn't pay much attention to that until the next scenarios. Next we started it with the water muffs over the water intake fins and after about 5 minutes of running it the HOT light on her dash lit up and I shut it off. I then notice that oil was dripping out of the lower end out the fins for the water pump intake. The motor ran good and everything but it was just overheating. I know that a bad water pump will cause overheating but could a bad water pump and seals possibly cause the water in the oil? The motor was completely rebuild by the owner before about a decade ago and my aunt hasn't done much with it. Thanks
 

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I always have an outboard or 2 to on the floor to bore; It seems as though there is always a cooling problem with at least a cylinder or two. Maybe it’s somehow the design but most always a bottom cylinder. I’ll bet Mr. Smitty has an answer.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Not trying to be mean but what does compression have to do with cooling? The thing runs good just that the bottom end is having issues.
 

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We are checking the compression for a hint on what’s the problem cylinder. The over heated cylinders usually go first. Which usually don’t get enough cooling water. For some reason the bottom cylinders in the stack usually go first.
 

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2 stroke thinker
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"Shee" you said that you had the lower end down to replace the water pump impeller ? ... my bad ! I mis-read the post.
The water pump impeller is in the lower unit along with a series of "O-rings"
Besides the over heating issue..."bad water pump impeller" I am thinking that you also have at least 1 bad "O-ring" in the assembly causing the water to leak or transfer to the oil in the case.

Being the age of the motor, It's a good possibility that all of the "O-rings" and or seals were Not replaced causing the water to enter the lower end.

Another thing to take note to...when changing the oil in the lower unit...to refill, you "pump" the case oil back into it from the "bottom up" meaning, fill the lower unit using the drain hole ..not the top "fill plug hole".. That's is Only used to check the oil level, not to fill with!

My Brother made that mistake and it cost him a lower unit !

They have a special type of hand pump that screws onto the quart bottle and it screws into the drain hole..simply pump until the oil comes out of the top plug hole and re-install the plugs.

It may take 2 or 3 quarts of the lube to fill the lower unit.

Joe
 

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Also the over-heating issue is probably from the lower unit impeller.

Very common due to not using the "ear muff" water adapter or just simply dry rotted.

The impeller is a rubber or neoprene type piece that looks like a "star".

They just simply go bad, not like a car or truck's water pump which is mostly made of steel except for some models that use a plastic impeller, designed to last at least 100,000 miles.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
We are checking the compression for a hint on what’s the problem cylinder. The over heated cylinders usually go first. Which usually don’t get enough cooling water. For some reason the bottom cylinders in the stack usually go first.
Oh ok, thank you for that I didnt know! I will bring my compression gauge over and check it soon.

"Shee" you said that you had the lower end down to replace the water pump impeller ? ... my bad ! I mis-read the post.
The water pump impeller is in the lower unit along with a series of "O-rings"
Besides the over heating issue..."bad water pump impeller" I am thinking that you also have at least 1 bad "O-ring" in the assembly causing the water to leak or transfer to the oil in the case.

Being the age of the motor, It's a good possibility that all of the "O-rings" and or seals were Not replaced causing the water to enter the lower end.

Another thing to take note to...when changing the oil in the lower unit...to refill, you "pump" the case oil back into it from the "bottom up" meaning, fill the lower unit using the drain hole ..not the top "fill plug hole".. That's is Only used to check the oil level, not to fill with!

My Brother made that mistake and it cost him a lower unit !

They have a special type of hand pump that screws onto the quart bottle and it screws into the drain hole..simply pump until the oil comes out of the top plug hole and re-install the plugs.

It may take 2 or 3 quarts of the lube to fill the lower unit.

Joe
Yeah I filled it through the hole on the side near the top of the low end where the manual said to fill. That is what I think is going on is that it isn't sealing correctly. I remember last year when we were running it I brought my laser temp gauge and both heads and on both sides of the engine block it was the same temperature. Cant recall what temp that was, I think 230 Fahrenheit. We waited for it to cool down and it fired back up no problems. I just think that if I am going to spend the time taking apart the bottom end I might as well do a water pump rebuild with a new impeller just incase.
 

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Finally something I can help answer. I've never had an 85 hp, but I've had plenty of outboards form that era. Now the fact that you have oil coming out of the water intake tells me the main shaft seal is very bad. I assume you had it in gear? You need to replace the water impeller and thermostat. Those are just normal wear parts and should be replaced every 3 years or so. Why outboards don't use aluminum or other metal water impellers like everything else I have no idea.

Before that, the first thing I would do is take the prop off and look for leaking oil there, and you will probably find fishing line, weeds, and all kinds of stuff that can get wrapped up and ruin the prop seal. Then I would take the thermostat out and try to flush water through the system to clear out any junk that is stuck inside. I wouldn't use a pressure washer, but a garden hose with sprayer will be just fine. Put the cover on the thermostat housing without the thermostat and try it again.

If it still doesn't pump water its time to check out the lower unit. There should be an access panel on the side of the housing just below the power head. There you can disconnect the shift linkage. Take the bolt all the way out, its not just a pinch bolt. Then you unbolt the lower unit. If it has a long shaft extension, do the bottom bolts, not the top. At that point you should be able to just pull straight down and the water tube, drive shaft, and shift linkage should pull off. The water pump housing is the black plastic housing on top of the lower unit, around the drive shaft. It is held on by 3 screws, and pulls up the drive shaft, as well as the rubber water impeller. Take note of which direction the fins of the impeller are bent. If you forget, if you look straight down on the lower unit, they should be bent counter clockwise when you put it back together. DON'T LOOSE THE KEY TO THE DRIVE SHAFT. Once you have that done, I think you have to take the base plate for the water pump housing off, but I don't remember how. Then you can look down into the hole, and see the main seal.

Hopefully it is just the seal. If there was water in the lower unit, its possible it froze over the winter, and cracked the case somewhere. Go over the whole thing with a careful eye. If the top main seal is coated in oil, its not too hard to replace. The drive shaft pulls right out. You will have to kind of mangle it with a screw driver to get it out. Grease the new one, and use a socket to put it in straight. Grease the drive shaft good, and be very gentle and get it lined up perfect. Its easy to ruin the new seal if you are not careful.

The most important part of putting it back together is getting the water tube lined up. The water tube goes in rubber grommets, but it might help to put a little RTV on the tube to help seal. Its easier if you have someone else to help line things up and turn the flywheel on the motor to line up the drive shaft. Once it finally lines up and pops on, put 2 bolts in to hold it up, then re connect the shift linkage. The reason is, you may very possibly drop the bolt, and have to take the lower unit back off to get it.

Once back in one piece with a new water impeller and thermostat and flushed out system, it will work. Its actually pretty easy to do; I can do a water impeller in about 30 minutes. Fingers crossed you don't find a big crack somewhere.
 

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"Everystroke" Nice description ! Thanks to the reply !
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thank you so much, you were very descriptive. Last night I looked at the service manual and ordered a water pump kit. I never saw any oil coming out of the prop really but I will still take it apart and inspect it. Im going to drain the oil again before I remove the lower unit and put fresh oil in after I install it. I forgot to mention the thermostat she said was replaced not too long ago.

"Everystroke" Nice description ! Thanks to the reply !
+1 Very descriptive!
 

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Very descriptive is definitely an A+ ! for sure.
Also, if it was running hot, it will fatigue the spring in the thermostat assy. causing a failure not to open up at the correct time or stay open not allowing the motor to heat up to the proper operating temp.

I see it quite a bit when, a customer driving a car low on coolant due to a coolant leak.

Sometimes they stick open or stay closed.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Very descriptive is definitely an A+ ! for sure.
Also, if it was running hot, it will fatigue the spring in the thermostat assy. causing a failure not to open up at the correct time or stay open not allowing the motor to heat up to the proper operating temp.

I see it quite a bit when, a customer driving a car low on coolant due to a coolant leak.

Sometimes they stick open or stay closed.
Alright, thank you I don't know much about boat motors so I will take a look at it when it gets a little warmer and I start working on it.
 

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230 shouldn't be too hot. To test the thermostat you can put it in a pan of water and heat it. I think outboard thermostats should open around 160 degrees.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
230 shouldn't be too hot. To test the thermostat you can put it in a pan of water and heat it. I think outboard thermostats should open around 160 degrees.
Alright thank you, I will be sure to test it. Thank you very much to all of you that helped me! Best forums I've been at :)
 

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Alright thank you, I will be sure to test it. Thank you very much to all of you that helped me! Best forums I've been at :)
Well appreciated even tho, "EVERYSTROKE" provided the most descriptive info on this topic.
I, was just adding some suggestive pointers as to what to look for.

"EVERYSTROKE" in my opinion, gets the credit !

When it gets warmer and you have a chance to check it out (the problem).. Let us know how you made out.

Joe
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Those water muffs you hook up to your garden hose
 

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Hey guys, bear with me this will be lengthy. So my aunt has a boat with a 1969 Evinrude 85hp V-4 2 stroke and I'm wondering if these scenarios sound like the water pump. The thing sat for a year or two and I helped her a little last year trying to get it to run. We got it running after giving it new gas mixed 50:1 with some Pennzoil 2 stroke outboard she had sitting around but I noticed a few things about it. The first thing is that I changed the lower unit oil and there was straight water coming out after some oil, I didn't pay much attention to that until the next scenarios. Next we started it with the water muffs over the water intake fins and after about 5 minutes of running it the HOT light on her dash lit up and I shut it off. I then notice that oil was dripping out of the lower end out the fins for the water pump intake. The motor ran good and everything but it was just overheating. I know that a bad water pump will cause overheating but could a bad water pump for dive watch and seals possibly cause the water best under 2000 in the oil? The motor was completely rebuild by the owner before about a decade ago and my aunt hasn't done much with it. Thanks
Check the compression in each cylinder; rings & cylinder walls get rusty & rings get sticky in the grooves.
 
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