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I am pretty happy with the progress, I am working with RSSS on E2S.COM to come up with a user friendly counter balance system. The spinning counter balancer weight needs to be able to be adjusted with in reason to be at bottom dead center with the piston at top dead center. I am hoping to get it timed perfectly one to another using test indicators on the piston dome and the bottom of the C/B system.
One of the goals is to design it in a way that doesnt interfere with local frame rails. That means keeping it shorter (legnth the assembly sticks out of the clutch cover case) I know by keeping it shorter the cost of getting rid of the maximum vibration possible climbs alot as you have to use VERY expensive metals to make the counter weights out of, but I want the system to appeal to everyone from dirt bikes to kart riders and all the motor heads in between. I also think mutch of the ideas shared on the E2S thread I linked at the first post of this thread can help eliminate the last of the vibes that this system doesnt.
The angle you mount your engine at, the mounts you use, the type of metal used and every other factor in between decides how much vibes you will experience to your body, take an old frame and hang it from a garage rafter by mig wire, hit it with a hammer... RING RING RING.... Now, add a gusset or a support bar and hit it again.. RiNg RiNg RiNg.. see... This system I am building will eliminate that egine frequency that is causing MOST of the vibes that numb your hands, with that being said it will create a forward and a backwards (front to rear bumper) vibration, nothing can be done about that. It`s part of the mechanics of a single cylinder system. When the crank lobes are at 3 and 9 the weight of the counter balancer with be way more than is needed to reduce the small amount of forward and rear vibration but when its at 12-6 the weight will be able to dampen most of that effect. Adding more weight to eliminate one makes the other worse. So it`s a trade off. NO SYSTEM gets rid of all of them. The rest that remain have to be lost by chassis design and other ways. Hope that shines some light on the egg head part of the design.
 

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Keep your lt500 engine, it doesnt say Honda. Also, keep your "Modern PV engines" I perfer my two smokes without a PV.. Sorry you cant see the benifits in addin the cr500 engine to the quad. I see them plain as day. 65 HORSE BONE STOCK.. no power valve no quadzilla engine (parts being discontinued)

The cr500 engine lives on! Almost everything is interchange to the newer styles, their reasonable priced and easy to find. They pump out mad horse power at low rpm`s and last WAY longer than any high rpm 450r that struggles to even come close to that horse power built, let alone stock.. and if you put 1500.00 in your 450 you get what I get STOCK! When my 500 tanks a rod or a bore job is needed I am out 1/4 of the cash.

The 500 in a trx or quad frame in general is the holy grail of the power hungry ATV industy. If Honda had any guts they woulda put one out to match the lt500.
I agree with Maxx..the LT500 really is the sleeper 500 engine for quads. With a few minor fixes they are stone axe reliable and put out the same power as a CR when both are modded, but the LT with a oem factory engineered and tested counterbalancer will outweigh the CR swap in a quad everyday if it's to be a actual rider (ie not drag only). But people will always continue to think that the sun rises and sets for Honda..sigh. Oh and there has never been a stock CR500 off Hondas showroom floor to dyno 65hp to the rear wheel. 52-56 rear wheel hp was top of the mark throughout all the years.
 

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I think 1986 was the CR500 year for power. While Suzuki may have a robust bottom end the cylinder will never touch the devopment into the cr top end. My .02.

As far as weight, for a duner the trade off is worth the extra few lbs over a trx engine.
 

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Maxx I'm not sure what or who your LT motor setup is, but I know a local builder/tuner here in AZ that makes a reliable honest low to mid 90's rear wheel hp setup for the LT500. Stock cylinder with his porting, pipe, headmods, 44mm mikuni on RACE gas no methanol. PM me if you want his contact info.

I've never seen a CR do that on gas, but I'm sure it's within the realm with enough r&d and money.

The problem is the LT market is so small compared to the CR so naturally most shops cater to the CR because that is where the money is. Very few builders know how to mak e the most out of a LT.
 

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you must be talking about jerry hall, he is by far one of the smartest guys in the industry.
I hate to compare dyno numbers, every dyno is a little differant, thats why I would never question that kind of HP from Jerry Hall
But I would love to have run one of his 90hp 500's with my old 75hp at the rear wheel cr500 on methanol motor
I just have not seen a truely fast quadzilla, but I know AZ has a whole lot more hill and drag racers so maybe noboby around here has ever stepped up to the plate with a real quadzilla by Jerry, but there are a few of his cylinders around.
 

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I agree with Maxx..the LT500 really is the sleeper 500 engine for quads. With a few minor fixes they are stone axe reliable and put out the same power as a CR when both are modded, but the LT with a oem factory engineered and tested counterbalancer will outweigh the CR swap in a quad everyday if it's to be a actual rider (ie not drag only). But people will always continue to think that the sun rises and sets for Honda..sigh. Oh and there has never been a stock CR500 off Hondas showroom floor to dyno 65hp to the rear wheel. 52-56 rear wheel hp was top of the mark throughout all the years.
I would rather push a bagged Honda than ride an LT...of any sort. My next door neighbor growing up had an LT250R ..what a pile of scrap. He POURED money into that thing and it NEVER was worth a bucket of steaming horse crap. I cant speak for the LT500, but I can say without a doubt that Honda`s a "feel" to them that makes them honda`s. I felt like I was sitting atop the LT, not the feeling Honda gives me.

I am sure you Suzuki fan boys are just as dedicated to your yellow as we are our red, but for me.. no thanks... EVER. :)

Oh and the number 65 was pulled from a motor builders site. Although I am sure it`s skewed, but no more than your super quadzilla numbers. I wonder, How many quadzillas were sold compared to trx250r units, heck I wonder how many LT`S combined were sold compared to just the 250r`s.. would be interesting to know. I am guessing 5:1 Honda.. and of course the most winning atv of all times was 250r. How did Suzuki fare at the track.. OUCH. Junk..
 

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Maxx I'm not sure what or who your LT motor setup is, but I know a local builder/tuner here in AZ that makes a reliable honest low to mid 90's rear wheel hp setup for the LT500. Stock cylinder with his porting, pipe, headmods, 44mm mikuni on RACE gas no methanol. PM me if you want his contact info.

I've never seen a CR do that on gas, but I'm sure it's within the realm with enough r&d and money.

The problem is the LT market is so small compared to the CR so naturally most shops cater to the CR because that is where the money is. Very few builders know how to mak e the most out of a LT.

I'm familiar with HPR work. He knows his stuff, at least with these LT big bores. This build was done by Arlan @ LeD. There is more room to squeeze however I was going after reliable power. So far after fixing a few quirks it's been a blast to ride. I want to squeeze in a bigger carb but am limited for space. I hope to swap out the 41.5 Pwk for a vm44 if it will fit. I could go a better pipe and get 3-4 more hp on top, however every dyno graph I've seen appear to rob that power from down low. All in all I'm happy, but if I do another or build a back up cylinder it will go to Jerry. I've been wanting to hack up a lt cylinder and have more exhaust ports put in for more top end.
I wasn't trying to rile anyone with the original question, just with how much of a joy it is to ride all day on a well balanced engine. I can't tell a difference in vibes between the LT and the 350 pro x that was pulled out.
Well kicking it over takes skill and caution, like petting a pitbull. I guess the bastard aspect aside, the difference is ride time and fab time. Top honors to the guys trying to make the Honda engine work for sure.
 

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65hp is a common number that has been quoted for cr500's over the years but I believe that was at the crank.
52-56 is a accurate hp number at the rear wheel, but they make 10-15lbs more torque than a small bore 250r motor so they still out run higher HP small bore motors.
10-15lbs doesn't seam like allot but its a amazing difference when you drive one.
I am sure this is the appeal of the lt500 motor in the R chassis, hopefully with some tuning of the chassis and counter balancer we can approach the level of vibration the lt500 has, yet remain true to our colors :)
 

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I would rather push a bagged Honda than ride an LT...of any sort. My next door neighbor growing up had an LT250R ..what a pile of scrap. He POURED money into that thing and it NEVER was worth a bucket of steaming horse crap. I cant speak for the LT500, but I can say without a doubt that Honda`s a "feel" to them that makes them honda`s. I felt like I was sitting atop the LT, not the feeling Honda gives me.

I am sure you Suzuki fan boys are just as dedicated to your yellow as we are our red, but for me.. no thanks... EVER. :)

Oh and the number 65 was pulled from a motor builders site. Although I am sure it`s skewed, but no more than your super quadzilla numbers. I wonder, How many quadzillas were sold compared to trx250r units, heck I wonder how many LT`S combined were sold compared to just the 250r`s.. would be interesting to know. I am guessing 5:1 Honda.. and of course the most winning atv of all times was 250r. How did Suzuki fare at the track.. OUCH. Junk..
Ok and....I have a buddy with a 250R that he has thrown the entire book of aftermarket stuff and repairs on and it has yet to finish a ride without being towed back to camp. What does that mean?! Absolutely nothing!!! With every bike the most important thing is WHO built it, WHO tuned it, and WHO is riding it. Suzuki has won championships just like Kawasaki, Yamaha, and Honda. I love Honda aswell, as they make a great product. But for some reason there are always a few blind Honda loyalist that will never give another brand credit just because "its not a Honda."

Another note about Jerrys dyno numbers on the LT. They are not exaggerated by any means, if anything his numbers might read low compared to other dynos. He is a humble scientist/engineer that doesn't have a cocky bone in his body and only seeks out the facts on what can be done with performance motor building. If a person ever gets to meet the guy, they'd understand.
 

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Another note about Jerrys dyno numbers on the LT. They are not exaggerated by any means, if anything his numbers might read low compared to other dynos. He is a humble scientist/engineer that doesn't have a cocky bone in his body and only seeks out the facts on what can be done with performance motor building. If a person ever gets to meet the guy, they'd understand.
I wasn't trying to say Jerry exaggerated his numbers, what I am saying when you have 2 differant measuring devices odds are the outputs will be differant.
I know jerry pretty well and respect his work, and the description of scientist/engineer could not have been more spot on.
 

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I wasn't trying to say Jerry exaggerated his numbers, what I am saying when you have 2 differant measuring devices odds are the outputs will be differant.
I know jerry pretty well and respect his work, and the description of scientist/engineer could not have been more spot on.
I concur...RSSS. Wasn't meaning it directly at you. Forum posting is just informal and can be difficult at times.
 

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Ok and....I have a buddy with a 250R that he has thrown the entire book of aftermarket stuff and repairs on and it has yet to finish a ride without being towed back to camp. What does that mean?! Absolutely nothing!!! With every bike the most important thing is WHO built it, WHO tuned it, and WHO is riding it. Suzuki has won championships just like Kawasaki, Yamaha, and Honda. I love Honda aswell, as they make a great product. But for some reason there are always a few blind Honda loyalist that will never give another brand credit just because "its not a Honda."

Another note about Jerrys dyno numbers on the LT. They are not exaggerated by any means, if anything his numbers might read low compared to other dynos. He is a humble scientist/engineer that doesn't have a cocky bone in his body and only seeks out the facts on what can be done with performance motor building. If a person ever gets to meet the guy, they'd understand.
Blind loyalty is developed over time. Easy to blindly follow the industry leader isnt it? Umad? Call Suzuki and complain about thier products to them. I dislike ALL things suzuki and always will. I perfer Yama next to Honda and Kaw next to that.. I wouldnt ride if the only thing made were LT products.
Myabe the people over there at team yellow should actually pilot some of their junk prior to selling it.
 

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Blind loyalty is developed over time. Easy to blindly follow the industry leader isnt it? Umad? Call Suzuki and complain about thier products to them. I dislike ALL things suzuki and always will. I perfer Yama next to Honda and Kaw next to that.. I wouldnt ride if the only thing made were LT products.
Myabe the people over there at team yellow should actually pilot some of their junk prior to selling it.
On that same note why don't you call Honda and tell them to grow a pair and build bikes that people actually want. Honda is NOT the same company as they were in the 80's and 90's, they have become a yes-man tree hugger company. It's well known that Honda is the most anti-2 stroke company out of all the OEMs. They were the only manufacturer out of the big 4 to threaten the AMA with pulling out sponsorship if they let the 250cc 4 stroke and 2 strokes race together.
 

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As an owner of a big single and a banshee it's no secret that a twin will be faster in a race.
Don't throw lot and lots of $$$$$$ on draggin a 500. You should be building it to enjoy all the other types of riding out there.
To say that I mean this without any disrespect is an understatement.
My current project is taking the power OUT of my big bore shee to make it MORE like my big single hybrid :Monster:
 

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i say let people build what they want to, if it doesnt work or put other people in danger, let them do it and leave them alone.
i've ridden a solid mounted one and it didnt vibrate very bad at all, i could have ridden it all day long and had no complaints, im sure with the way i built mine im not gonna FEEL the vibes very much either. if i do, i'll redesign it, buildin stuff is what i do and i enjoy doing it.
on the other hand, i have only seen 1 LT anything that wasnt a complete pile of crap breaking down every ride. and i blame the builder, not the company
 

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Always gonna be people who feel like they have to force their views on you. For all the nay sayers and all the haters of what I am trying to do, I dont want or need your opinions.. thanks... Back to the build.
 
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